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Matt@9BallDesign
#1 Posted : Sunday, August 5, 2007 7:14:33 PM(UTC)
Matt@9BallDesign

Rank: Member

Joined: 12/23/2003(UTC)
Posts: 909

I go to add a 4th Choice to a product and the application tells me that the product has too many choices?


1. Why is a there limit to customer choices?



2. If this can be changed, how?
Matt Martell


http://www.9balldesign.com - Web, Print, Graphic


http://www.martellhardware.com/ - Decorative & Builder's Hardware

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MitchA
#2 Posted : Sunday, August 5, 2007 10:01:38 PM(UTC)
MitchA

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/3/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,737

Matt, I've got 8 choices (actually, I use modifiers) on this and other products:

http://www.missionfurnis...ne-Cabinet__MAS742R.aspx

Try switching to modifiers if you don't need to edit the URL... I don't need to fiddle around with the URL, swapping images, etc. Perhaps choice editing is topping out and that's where you're hitting the limit.
Optimists invent airplanes,
Pessimists buy parachutes.
Matt@9BallDesign
#3 Posted : Monday, August 6, 2007 11:31:29 AM(UTC)
Matt@9BallDesign

Rank: Member

Joined: 12/23/2003(UTC)
Posts: 909

Hey Mitch, I've been instructed to consider modifiers as well. Which is all well and good, but we are dealing with image swapping, content changes, etc.. so we'll have to do a time & place on what to use.

would be nice to not have a cap, but as notified, we'd be messing with performance!
Matt Martell


http://www.9balldesign.com - Web, Print, Graphic


http://www.martellhardware.com/ - Decorative & Builder's Hardware

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[email protected]
#4 Posted : Monday, August 6, 2007 4:08:22 PM(UTC)
everett@bvsoftware.com

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/8/2007(UTC)
Posts: 139

Hey Matt,

Do you still need to increase this limit? There is a setting in the database you can modify to increase the number of product choices. Like you mentioned though, a huge number of choices on a product can make the product pages really slow (Think of the product choices like individual products - if you load a product that has 1000 choices, well your essentially loading 1001 products). If you still want to increase this limit, just say so.

Thanks,
Everett Comstock

BV Software
Matt@9BallDesign
#5 Posted : Monday, August 6, 2007 10:08:19 PM(UTC)
Matt@9BallDesign

Rank: Member

Joined: 12/23/2003(UTC)
Posts: 909

I've been going back and forth on this. In BV2004, we have the ability to tag unique SKUs to the product choices.

I don't see anywhere to do this using product modifiers, but we can do it on product variants (unless I'm severely missing something!). My client's require unique SKUs.

How do I create products with choices that have unique SKUs. Regardless of the number of the choices, without having to change the webapp settings and not entering each and every unique product onto the store.

It works perfectly in BV2004.
Matt Martell


http://www.9balldesign.com - Web, Print, Graphic


http://www.martellhardware.com/ - Decorative & Builder's Hardware

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GAlton
#6 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 9:02:18 AM(UTC)
GAlton

Rank: Member

Joined: 6/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 101

It's hard to imagine that I will not be able to assign sku's numbers to a product with different choices.


I have over 3,000 skus at UnoClean.com, a large warehouse. If I can not assign different skus to different colors, sizes of the same sku how is the warehouse personnel going to locate the product. We run a warehouse by location/bins/sku



I will have modifiers on most products, i.e. we sell by the single item, by the case. Floor pads just by itself has 5 different sizes and 8 different colors. I could go on with most of our products.



By raising the web app settings to accomodate my existing BV4 site - what performance hit will I take.
[email protected]
#7 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 9:25:55 AM(UTC)
everett@bvsoftware.com

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/8/2007(UTC)
Posts: 139

Hey Matt and Greg,

Instead of modifiers, just use product choices. Though you may take a performance hit, it is unlikely that it will be very noticeable. I have actually tested products that have over 100 choices and there did not seem to be any lag. I think this rule of thumb is mainly geared to sites that reside on a shared host that has severely limited their CPU access and throttled down their bandwidth.

Open your WebAppSettings table and increase the value in the "MaxVariantCombinations" field. The number is the maximum number of variants allowed.

Thanks,
Everett Comstock

BV Software
Matt@9BallDesign
#8 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:43:12 AM(UTC)
Matt@9BallDesign

Rank: Member

Joined: 12/23/2003(UTC)
Posts: 909

I enter a product. I click "Product Variations". I add let's say 2 choices to the product (Size & Color, 4 options each)

That's 16 SKU #s. When I hit 100 variants, the website says no more are allowed.

I have been told that the application is capping it at 100 variants due to performance reasons. So let's look at the fact that I have a store that has roughly 75% of it's catalog needing unique SKUs (solved with variants). Let's say that the site is going to need 6000 unique SKUs (a.k.a variants), some of the products are at a 16-28 SKU range, some are at a 40-75 SKU range, handful well over 75 SKUs (think exhaust systems as a real product example).

I up the app settings to 6000.

What's that going to do to the:

1. Server
2. Website
3. Other websites that may be on the server assuming it's a dedicated
4. Other websites that are on the server because it's a shared enviroment

I keep hearing this "performance hit" statement and that's what is getting me in a tizzy right now...LOL...because I'm not seeing cold hard facts.



what's it going to do? Has this been tested in-house at BV?



If this "performance hit" isn't much, than say the word!! I'm waiting for guidance from BV Software on this as I can't afford to sacrifice performance just so I can get unique SKUs. We're already getting them in BV2004.
Matt Martell


http://www.9balldesign.com - Web, Print, Graphic


http://www.martellhardware.com/ - Decorative & Builder's Hardware

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[email protected]
#9 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:51:28 AM(UTC)
everett@bvsoftware.com

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/8/2007(UTC)
Posts: 139

Hey Matt,

I think a part of the confusion here is that the "MaxVariantCombinations" determines the maximum number of variants per each parent product. So, if you configured the field to be "6000", you could have 6000 variations for each product. The store can have an unlimited number of products with unique SKU's. There is no relationship between "MaxVariantCombinations" and the number of unique SKU's in the store.
The performance hit really depends on your hardware. I have tested products with over 500 variants on my local machine and I haven't noticed any lag. And to be honest, my box is not the latest and greatest that money can buy :smile: .

Thanks,
Everett Comstock

BV Software
Matt@9BallDesign
#10 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 11:29:45 AM(UTC)
Matt@9BallDesign

Rank: Member

Joined: 12/23/2003(UTC)
Posts: 909

LOL...You can lead me to the water and I will most certainly drink it!

Attached is a visual.



Top Graphic - This product has 3 Product Choices (two options for each choice)



Middle Graphic - This is how we setup the choices. Red font explains the W's of each choice.



Bottom Graphic - I add a 4th choice and two options. I get that error that is underlined.



Currently the MaxVariantCombinations is set to the default 100.







Does the fact that I'm adding so many null items affect the variant limit? From a top level observation, I click "Edit Product Variations" and I don't see the null items, so I assume that this doesn't affect the limit.



I will modify the choices to not have the null items to test this, but by changing the current display (i.e 1: [Table Top Color]), I'm making a sacrifice in regards to usability and Jakob Nielsen would have a field day with me and I then have to further modify the product templates to allocate the necessary space required to display the Choices (which completely ruins aesthetics and usability) as not matter what, we need to have a null item in each choice to eliminate possible errors of selecting the wrong combination of choices.



By having a null item (i.e Table Top Color), the customer has to choose an option. By not having a null item, a customer may leave the first option at the wrong color thus creating a wrong order!



Make sense?
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Matt Martell


http://www.9balldesign.com - Web, Print, Graphic


http://www.martellhardware.com/ - Decorative & Builder's Hardware

------------------------------------------------
[email protected]
#11 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 11:38:35 AM(UTC)
everett@bvsoftware.com

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/8/2007(UTC)
Posts: 139

Hey Matt,

The Null item idea makes sense, and no, the Null items do not count towards the total number of variants. How many colors and graphics choices are available? I would keep your Null Item setup and raise the "MaxVariantCombinations" to what ever works for this site. No sense in making things more difficult from a styling and layout perspective.

Thanks,
Everett Comstock

BV Software
Matt@9BallDesign
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 12:54:06 PM(UTC)
Matt@9BallDesign

Rank: Member

Joined: 12/23/2003(UTC)
Posts: 909

For this product, we're looking at 4 Choices with 2 selections per choice.

A: 1,2
B: 1,2
C: 1,2
D: 1,2

I never did well in math class (you know us creative types...always thinking about landscapes and pretty colors...LOL) so I'm thinking that's 128 possible combinations? I'm probably wrong but it's gotta be over 100...Which is why we're getting the Max out error. So the maxvariant level is tied to an individual product or the amount of variants allowed on the entire store?

So like I said, you're leading me to the water....

As long as you guys (BV) feel that raising the MaxVariantCombinations to maybe 200 or 300 isn't going to affect the overall site performance and other sites on the box, I'll tap Resposio and I'm off to the races!

Thanks for walking through this with me, sometimes us designers need it crystal clear...LOL
Matt Martell


http://www.9balldesign.com - Web, Print, Graphic


http://www.martellhardware.com/ - Decorative & Builder's Hardware

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Marcus
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 12:55:22 PM(UTC)
Marcus

Rank: Member

Joined: 11/5/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,786

2 * 2 * 2 * 2 = 16 unique combos. Are you sure you don't have any other choices? You shouldn't be hitting the 100 variant limit.

Raising the limit to 200-300 should be okay in most cases. It depends on how powerful your server is and how many other sites it hosts.
Matt@9BallDesign
#14 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 1:17:42 PM(UTC)
Matt@9BallDesign

Rank: Member

Joined: 12/23/2003(UTC)
Posts: 909

Sounds good on the variant limit change. Resposio has some mean machines!


If it's 16 (which I just confirmed by looking at it...who would've thought it was that easy...LOL) that's why I'm wondering why it's capping out?
Matt Martell


http://www.9balldesign.com - Web, Print, Graphic


http://www.martellhardware.com/ - Decorative & Builder's Hardware

------------------------------------------------
Matt@9BallDesign
#15 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 2:34:06 PM(UTC)
Matt@9BallDesign

Rank: Member

Joined: 12/23/2003(UTC)
Posts: 909

OK, just dug a little further. If anybody else could confirm this?

I have null items in the choices (3 total choices, 2 null items each, 2 actual options each), so it creates the variants:

2 x 2 x 2 = 8 variants (ie. SKUS)

If I keep the null items, but remove the null values from each, it would be

4 x 4 x 4 = 64 variants (i.e skus)

I add 1 more choice with 2 options & 2 null items and reactivate the null item values (check box):

2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 16 variants (ie. SKUS)

I keep the 4th choice and the null items, but remove the null values, it would be:

4 x 4 x 4 x 4 = 256 variants (ie. Skus) - going over the 100 variant cap



Is the system calculating the correct # of variants? i.e. ignoring null items during calculation.

Yes, when I click edit product variations, but perhaps not when the system is comparing variants to the 100 limit. So while the calculations are in fact correct (256 variants) it is not taking into consideration the null items.

Raising the Max limit is a foolproof answer here, but is it the right answer?
Matt Martell


http://www.9balldesign.com - Web, Print, Graphic


http://www.martellhardware.com/ - Decorative & Builder's Hardware

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