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birdsafe
#1 Posted : Friday, November 28, 2008 7:19:39 PM(UTC)
birdsafe

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Joined: 2/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,113

Running 5.3.2 -- if you set up a Buy One, Get One offer, adding the same item to the cart for 100 percent off, it works fine -- until you change quantity on the Cart Page and click Update -- it then renders ALL of that item free. So if you add 2 to the cart, you start with four in the cart, with a charge for two -- you change quantity to, say, five and now you have five all free.
birdsafe
#2 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 1:15:08 PM(UTC)
birdsafe

Rank: Member

Joined: 2/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,113

Can anyone else recreate this error?
MitchA
#3 Posted : Friday, December 12, 2008 6:04:03 PM(UTC)
MitchA

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/3/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,737

Maybe this is why we're in the mess we're in.....

Sorry, I don't do BOGO, but given the rarity of BOGO, 'not surprised it took so long too find this.
Optimists invent airplanes,
Pessimists buy parachutes.
JavaNut
#4 Posted : Wednesday, December 24, 2008 2:35:05 PM(UTC)
JavaNut

Rank: Member

Joined: 6/25/2008(UTC)
Posts: 92

I experience the same issue with our cart, Joe. Great feature, if you're trying to give your product away for free, that is!

Does anyone know if there is a bug fix for this?
birdsafe
#5 Posted : Wednesday, December 24, 2008 3:51:46 PM(UTC)
birdsafe

Rank: Member

Joined: 2/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,113

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one seeing this.
bvcoder
#6 Posted : Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:46:09 AM(UTC)
bvcoder

Rank: Member

Joined: 8/1/2007(UTC)
Posts: 310

Nope. I have been able to repro this in BV 5.3.2.
Thanks,
Satya
support @ bayquel.net
Work: +1 803 883 3226
Marcus
#7 Posted : Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:43:30 PM(UTC)
Marcus

Rank: Member

Joined: 11/5/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,786

I asked a couple of questions in this thread about this issue.

I have been able to duplicate this but I'm wondering why the BOGO offer on the same product instead of a volume discount schedule?

I think the problem comes from the combination of "auto add to cart" and a BOGO offer on the same SKU. When this happens the system has a hard time determining which of the SKUs were added by the discount system and which were requested by the user.
MitchA
#8 Posted : Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:09:42 PM(UTC)
MitchA

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/3/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,737

"...but I'm wondering why the BOGO offer on the same product instead of a volume discount schedule?"


Marcus, it takes hours to build volume discounts if you have dozens of products to discount. Volume discounts as a feature is just about useless if you can't spare the time to build each product it's own table.

You don't run a store and only see (usually correctly) that a feature works on a product or two. 20, 50 products... forget the feature... Easily edited Cross sells comes to mind - hours to edit product after product after product.

Time to put a '% Off' Vol Disc in Offers and Sales. New BVC6 feature?
.
Optimists invent airplanes,
Pessimists buy parachutes.
Marcus
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:47:20 PM(UTC)
Marcus

Rank: Member

Joined: 11/5/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,786

Actually Mitch, I do run a store. I use volume discounts on the BV Software store and they work great.

They may not be appropriate for your store or your needs and I'd like to hear about how you would improve them but let's not act as though the feature doesn't work for anyone.
MitchA
#10 Posted : Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:44:00 PM(UTC)
MitchA

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/3/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,737

Marcus,

I've stated on numerous threads very clearly that Vol Discs. work. I use them and if you'll read my post more clearly, I didn't say they don't work "for anyone". I state that they are useless to use if you have dozens of products. I can't spare the time to build volume discounts on 20, 30 products for a short term 'offer'. Nobody can. So for a large 'volume discount' promotional, they ARE useless. They don't even clone along with a product. That would help.

And for Pete's sake, why not Vol Discounts that offer XX% off if you buy 2, XX% off if you buy 3....????? You have no idea what it takes to calculate the $ figures for 20, 30, 40 products all priced differently - because you don't run a store. You don't run a store, you've posted a few products for sale that don't change on a daily, weekly, monthly basis.

Marcus, sit next to someone who actually runs a store with 100's of products coming from dozens of suppliers that change prices, policies, shipping parameters, discounts, seasonal sales, photos for a few days. Really, do it. Applying some of the features of the software is torture... BUT YES, THEY WORK if you can spare the time!

Making products active/not active is a royal PITA. Each product has to be opened. Can't this be done on the products page? Yes, it can!! A bit of ease for the merchant here. A light to show if any sales, discounts, etc apply would be a great help. Keeps product attributes for at least this part of the marketing plan in plain sight. Red light, x-mas sale is still applied past a notice date - gotta cancel it.

Try this... Add 50 new products to your store and get them into the Cross sells list on 150 other products.... Show us how to do this in less than 12 hours, PLEASE! But yes, Cross Sells do work... this feature that's designed to expose products just isn't designed very well. Even a random Cross Sells picker would be nice to have. ie: Click "Random" and every product in the store (or just from chosen category(s)) has a chance at being seen as Cross Sells without needing to sit at the computer for hours.



Shipping is a HUGE stumbling block. BUT IT WORKS. Perhaps this can be made to work.....

F'rinstance:
A box shipping 1 bowling ball doubles in volume and weight when you add 1 more ball to the order. We should be able to set 2 as the limit before a second box is created when 3 are ordered.

A box shipping 1 box of gift cards will stay the same even if you put 4 more boxes of gift cards in the same package. Why? because the box needs to be big enough for the label. That's likely also big enough for 4 more boxes of cards too.

There's gotta be a way to make that work by category and/or product.

You aren't dealing with this because you don't ship anything. Totaling up static product volume is the easy way out.



Marcus, you don't print labels nor get invoices from UPS, Fed Ex 2 weeks later that are in 'error', sometimes by a lot of $. You don't email customers with explanations as to why shipping was too high or too low. You don't run BOGO, seasonal sales, manufacturer's specials, category-wide close-outs. You don't deal with MSRP rules, MAP policies, or ship actual boxes inside or out of the country.

You don't collect checks from wholesalers that include payments for a dozen orders. It takes TIME to click all the way through the stacked menus to enter a check payment. 7 IIRC. That's too many and it's easily changed to maybe 2.


And finally, it's been 2 years since the manual has been updated in any meaningful way. (The videos still don't play in FF) Just adding a "search terms" feature would be great. There are a few of us here answering the same questions over and over (the same ones I asked years ago for lack of a decent manual) in an effort to allow you to go about the business of improving your product. How many times are we going to type "Green tabs....."


We're all pulling for you because we think the wait and effort will be worth it. Kitting was a 2 year wait. Some really great customers left while SP2 was getting fixed. Some old-timers reading this know what this means, and we're still here.


If we don't ask for a better product, you won't know what's in need of improvement and we won't get a better product, right? This thread was started almost 2 months ago..... so BOGO is a feature that works really well, or just so-so?

Oh, I'm so glad you've gone to nearly 1K. There are a few of us that saw little hope of survival /support at $499.00.
Optimists invent airplanes,
Pessimists buy parachutes.
Marcus
#11 Posted : Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:27:55 AM(UTC)
Marcus

Rank: Member

Joined: 11/5/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,786

Mitch,

Imagine building a kitchen for a premier 100 table restaurant that you could also roll out onto the street for a hot dog vendor. That's not even close to the challenge of writing a generic ecommerce platform that can accommodate businesses of varying sizes and needs.

You're correct that I don't run a store like yours but it is insulting to chant "You don't run a store" just like it would be insulting to tell the hot dog vendor he doesn't sell food. There are some hot dog stands in NYC that make more money than your typical restaurant does.

I work with merchants of all sizes every single day and I hear about the challenges they face using our software. I want to hear about those challenges because that's how the software will get better.

If you think that something in the software needs improvement you should let me know in a constructive way. Fill out the contact form or send an email and say "volume discounts are difficult for me to work with and I'd really like to see % discounts."

In your post above you mentioned the following items that I have never heard from you about before now. Why didn't you bring your concerns to my attention earlier?

* UPS reports are in 'error'
- You'll need to be more specific. Is it that the UPS rates aren't calculating correctly for your products or that the labels are incorrect? You can always create your own DimensionsCalculator plugin to box products according to YOUR business rules. Every business is different and a UPS change for a furniture business will break things for other merchants.

* Making Products Inactive is time consuming for you.
- There is a batch edit feature that doesn't have "Active" as a setting right now. Maybe that would help. Also, SQLFindAndReplace is a nice tool to quickly batch update data.

* What MSRP problems are you having?
- A lot of my customers deal with MAP and I've already gotten lots of feedback on it. There are custom workflow tasks that can meet most of those rules including hiding the price until an item is added to the cart.

* Collecting checks from wholesalers
- Sounds like you're using the order manager as an accounting application. We use quickbooks to deal with taking checks that span multiple orders.

* User Manual
- Yep, it's outdated. Improvements are in the works.

* BOGO
- The Buy One Get One feature was designed for customers who want Product B to come along free or discounted when Product A is purchased. We never anticipated that merchants would use the feature to discount Product A when Product A is purchased. So, right now, the BOGO offer has some bugs in those circumstances. We're reviewing our options and are working on a solution but if you've looked through the discount and offer code you'll realize it's not a simple task.
MitchA
#12 Posted : Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:28:09 AM(UTC)
MitchA

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/3/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,737

Originally Posted by: "Matt" Go to Quoted Post
I agree with Mitch, we hane hundreds of products that have volume discounts and when we get a price change, it creates a real issue to update all the products.
A percent off would be great and it would be better it the discount coule be updated through a import.


Or via a product batch edit.
Optimists invent airplanes,
Pessimists buy parachutes.
MitchA
#13 Posted : Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:56:40 AM(UTC)
MitchA

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/3/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,737

A few that go back as far as a year:


"Random" placement of Cross Sells
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=54368

Better, easier way to create volume discount units/prices:
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=54368

Less clicking to print an order, invoice, etc.
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=54343

Wildcard product entry in admin on the New Order page
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=54362

An email log on the order page in Order Mgr.
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=54342

Ship-to email for shipment notification to recipient - should this be a MUST!
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=54713

Cloning products also clones add'l images.
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=54882

Allow this product to be 'active' until....
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=55178

A 'Below Minimum Order" handling charge.
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=55656

Enter SKU directly on the cart page.
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=56385

Price Groups
http://forums.bvcommerce...t.aspx?f=101&m=56641

Marcus, you set up the " Requested Features for BV Commerce 6 " area at MY REQUEST so we could put these at your fingertips. There are hundreds like this. Pick out a few, integrate them and get the ASP.NET Reader's Choice Award back.

See also 'Feature Enhancements':
http://forums.bvcommerce.com/default.aspx?f=92


BOGO
""" We never anticipated that merchants would use the feature to discount Product A when Product A is purchased.""""

That's what happens if you don't design what the market demands. Even Bic pens are sold "Buy 3, get another one FREE". Roll -off-the-wall marketing. BOGO isn't buggy, it just wasn't thoughtfully designed nor completely tested, apparently.

Marcus, don't tell us we don't ask. you may not be able to deliver, but don't dare tell us we don't ask.
Optimists invent airplanes,
Pessimists buy parachutes.
Marcus
#14 Posted : Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:32:02 AM(UTC)
Marcus

Rank: Member

Joined: 11/5/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,786

Okay, Mitch. I'll just say it. You're an ass.

You may have some good feedback but your attitude of assuming you know everything about my business and my software is off putting.

I'm not perfect. Neither is my software. But I genuinely try to deliver a great product and meet the needs of my customers. LaGarde is out of business. So are many of my competitors from years ago. If you want to contribute to the effort in a constructive way I'm ready to listen. If you want to rant and tell me how much I suck then I hope you have better luck with other ecommerce packages.
Matt@9BallDesign
#15 Posted : Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:15:39 AM(UTC)
Matt@9BallDesign

Rank: Member

Joined: 12/23/2003(UTC)
Posts: 909

All this time spent posting could be better spent building furniture or coding....LOL..


chill out guys. We're all in this together.
Matt Martell


http://www.9balldesign.com - Web, Print, Graphic


http://www.martellhardware.com/ - Decorative & Builder's Hardware

------------------------------------------------
MitchA
#16 Posted : Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:10:56 PM(UTC)
MitchA

Rank: Member

Joined: 3/3/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,737

Yes, I am an ass at times.

After using BVC5 every day for 2 years I'm as able as most to offer suggestions and critiques.

I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.
Optimists invent airplanes,
Pessimists buy parachutes.
Marcus
#17 Posted : Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:14:53 PM(UTC)
Marcus

Rank: Member

Joined: 11/5/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,786

Thanks Mitch. It's easy to read into things on the forums and I popped my top.

I really do want to hear about what isn't working for you with BV Commerce. I appreciate the list of previous posts and if you have anything else you're concerned about please let me know.
birdsafe
#18 Posted : Saturday, February 21, 2009 8:36:39 PM(UTC)
birdsafe

Rank: Member

Joined: 2/21/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,113

Marcus,

Since this was my original thread, let me say this -- the term "BOGO" in marketing is in fact directed at "Buying One" of an item and "Getting One" of the SAME item free.

If I have one item that sells for $5 and I want the customer to get one free, then they pay $5 for adding two to the cart. If I use a volume discount, say "buy two and pay $2.50" -- then they can buy three for $7.50, instead of making them buying a third to get a FOURTH free, now you are giving them one free and a third for 50 percent off.

Plus Volume discounts that ONLY use a dollar amount are a PITA becuase when you change product prices, then you have to also make sure you change your volume discounts accordingly. To make it work better for us merchants a percentage discount would ALWAYS work out the same regardless of the product price.

The other problem with Volume Pricing -- unless I have a bug -- is that when you have a product, category, or storewide sale, the sale discount is off the BASE price, not the volume discount price, so then the customer questions if they are in fact getting the correct percentage off.
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